HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning and Zoning Commission-Minutes-11/27/2000
Planning & Zoning Commission
Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 1 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
The regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Chairman
Hart at 7:00 P.M. on November 27, 2000.
Roll Call:
Present:
Tom Hart, Jo Ann Gasper, Luann Edwards, Joe Hocutt,
Mark Hollis, Jeffrey Wall, Bryan Hill
Barry LeBaron, Clayton Husband, Tom Niederauer, Jan
Levy
Staff:
Invocation:
Commissioner Gasper
Approval of Minutes:
November 13, 2000
Commissioner Wall moved to approve the minutes as written. Commissioner Gasper
seconded the motion. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
1. A Final Plat for Hall Medlin Addition, requested by Charles Scott O'Neal, 13.49 acres located
at the north end of Cedar Court. Case P-00-067
Clayton Husband presented the case to the Commission. He told them when the preliminary plan
was approved and the status of the engineering plans. He said that the utility easement needs
to be added to the plat.
Commissioner Hocutt asked about the length of the radius of the cul-de-sac.
Commissioner Hollis said that he owns property on Cedar Court and will not be voting on the item,
but Cedar Street should be Cedar Court and Jo Will Court should be Jo Will Street on the plat.
Commissioner Edwards moved to approve the final plat subject to addition of the drainage
utility easement to serve all four lots. Commissioner Gasper to seconded the motion. The
vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
Abstention: Hollis
2. A Minor Plat for Remington Park Phase Three - A requested by Edward Eckart, Goodwin &
Marshall, Inc., 1.118 acres located at 308 W. Van Oaks Dr. Case P-00-082
Clayton Husband told the Commission about the additional copy of the detailed exhibit showing
the Van Oaks Drive proposal. He said that portion of Remington Parkway is currently under
construction. He said that there was considerable interest in the intersection of Van Oaks and
Remington Parkway at the time of the rezoning of the property and the residents of Van Oaks did
not want to be extended. He said that the developer is proposing a fire lane and then transitioning
to Van Oaks Drive that would be used for emergency reasons only. Mr. Husband said that the
alternate street layout will require approval of the City Council.
Planning & Zoning Commission
Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 2 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
Commissioner Edwards asked what knock down boards were. Barry LeBaron said that there are
several different designs available and they would work with the fire department until they are
satisfied.
Commissioner Gasper said that given the landscaping that is shown in the picture how would the
emergency vehicles get into the lane. Clayton Husband responded the fire lane is a standard 24'
wide. He said that both lots are dedicating right of way.
Commissioner Gasper moved to approve the final plat. Commissioner Hill seconded the
motion. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
3. A Preliminary Plat for Timarron Village H - Phase 3 requested by Chad Kimbell & Rob Adams,
Adams Consulting Engineers, Inc., 16.9 acres located at the east of Timarron Golf Course with
access from Byron Nelson Pkwy. Southlake, TX. Case P-00-083
Clayton Husband presented the case to the Commission. He said that this is the last piece of
Timarron that is in Colleyville and the only access is through Byron Nelson Parkway in South lake.
He said that the proposed lots exceed the PUD requirement that was previously approved and
are surrounded with open space. He told the Commission that they are asking for a waiver from
the number of lots located on a cul-de-sac and for a waiver from the 56' cul-de-sac right of way.
Mr. Husband said the other issues being discussed with City staff and the City of South lake are
for the provision of utilities and services and with this being a preliminary plat there is time to work
out those issues before the final plat. The original PUD showed a larger number of lots in this
area than are being proposed in the preliminary plan.
Commissioner Edwards asked where are they getting their utilities from. Staff responded that
they are still in discussion now. They said there is sewer in the creek and will be easy to get to
and there is a water line that stubs out in Byron Nelson Parkway. She said that she wanted the
street to match what is there. Staff said that is a reason they forwarded the plat to South lake for
their comments.
Commissioner Wall commented that it sounds like we are in competition with South lake for
services and he wants the subdivision to be coordinated with them.
Terry Wilkinson, developer, was present to represent the case. He stated that he has developed
two different phases of Timarron that are the higher end homes in Timarron. He said that
South lake requires a 50' right of way and the larger right of way matches with a landscape
medium and then transition down to the 50' right of way to the south. He said that this portion of
Timarron will have a very impressive entrance way and the design criteria used are consistent with
the rest of Timarron.
Commissioner Edwards asked how wide the actual street is going to be. Mr. Wilkinson responded
that it will be 30' pavement with 9 ~ ' behind the curb.
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Minutes - November 27,2000
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Commissioner Gasper commented on the narrowing down of the street around lots 19 and 8. She
asked what are the maximum width and the minimum width. Mr. Wilkinson said they are putting
in trees along the boulevard entrance to widen the street out and then the street will narrow and
to the north in South lake on Byron Nelson is an existing landscape Blvd.
Commissioner Hocutt questioned the 45' radius. Mr. Wilkinson said that the pavement is 45'
wide with a 10' right of way.
Commissioner Gasper commented on the floodplain retrieval. Terry Wilkinson said they are
having a detailed floodplain study done and it is real important that they maintain the heavy tree
coverage. He said that the lots will be a minimum of 2' higher than the flood plain. Mr. Wilkinson
said he is used to developing in areas that have creeks and the pad sites will be approved by
FEMA.
Commissioner Edwards asked since this is a PUD will the engineering study, the flood plain and
the elevations be on the final plat. She said that they will be tied up at time of final plat and she
would like to see an inter-local agreement at time of final plat. Terry Wilkinson said that before
he can go forward with the development he is conditioning the agreement of purchase subject to
the agreement between Southlake and Colleyville for services.
Commissioner Gasper asked Chief Johnston about the applicant's layout of the streets. He said
that he reviewed the plat and the 56' right of way would be sufficient. Chief said they would want
to be able to provide emergency cervices to the area even if they have to go through Southlake.
Commissioner Hocutt would like to see something from the City of Southlake to make sure it
meets their Land Development Code. Mr. Wilkinson said that the lots are substantially larger than
the other portions of Timarron in Southlake. Commissioner Hocutt said he agrees but for all
practical purposes South lake will have to service the lots and they need to agree prior to final plat
Commissioner Gasper asked the applicant how does 56' right of way impact his development.
Mr. Wilkinson said that he wants it to match South lake and these are larger homes and there is
a lot of topography and they want to maximize the placement of the home on the lot. He said that
Colleyville requires 30' front setbacks and in Southlake there is a 25' front setback. He said with
the shape of the property as it narrows down it gets pretty tight for the kind of development he
likes to do. He said that 50' right of way would work best.
Commissioner Wall commented that he would like an inter-local agreement to meet South lake
standards.
Commissioner Edwards said that she would not normally be lenient on the street layout aA4 but
if it wdKs out that South lake doesn't have a problem with it, it should not make a difference.
Commissioner Gasper questioned what if they look at a 25' setback with a wider street. Mr.
Wilkinson said that if staff recommends that so be it, but he would like it to be consistent with
Southlake. He said that If he doesn't get an inter-local agreement he will not be back before the
Commission with a final plat.
Commissioner Gasper moved to approve the preliminary plat contingent upon an inter-
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Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 4 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
local agreement with the City of Southlake. Second by Wall seconded the motion. The
vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
Commissioner Wall asked staff to transmit the Commissioners' thoughts to Southlake, especial
how their approval looks to them as far as public safety issues and it meets South lake standards.
4. PUBLIC HEARING - A Zoning Change requested by H. Darryl Heath, from R40 to R30 on
0.7999 acres located at 305 White Drive. Case Z-00-084
Tom Niederauer presented the case to the Commission. He pointed out that the existing house
is on property that is not platted. The owner will live in the existing house and the remaining
property will remain R40 and the buyer is proposing to build one residential dwelling on that
property.
Commissioner Gasper said that it sounds as if the owner has a prospective purchaser and this
needs to be done to facilitate the transaction.
Barry LeBaron said that this started as a plat and discovered that the home site did not meet the
R40 and then they applied for R30 on the original home site. He said once the zoning is complete
the plat will be considered to eliminate all of the lines and will be replatted.
Commissioner Wall asked why didn't they carve out a piece that meets the R40 zoning district
requirements. Staff said that the owner was present at the meeting.
Chairman Hart opened the public hearing.
Joe Jursiak, 305 White Drive, said that the property was zoned R40 and the lot his house was on
has never conformed to the R40 lot requirements. He said that he has submitted a plat for all of
the property to be replatted. He said that he will live on the R30 piece and this is where he wants
the property line drawn.
There being no one else present wishing to speak, Public Hearing was closed. Tom Niederauer
said that he took the plan out to the neighbor and it met with his approval. He said the neighbor
could not be present at the public hearing.
Commissioner Gasper moved to recommend approval of the zoning change request to R30.
Commissioner Hocutt seconded the motion. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
5. PUBLIC HEARING - A Zoning Change requested by Bailey Draper Custom Homes, Inc., from
AG to R20 on 5.006 acres located at 7210 John McCain Road. Case Z-OO-085
Tom Niederauer presented the case to the Commission. He said that they propose eight lots on
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Minutes - November 27, 2000
Page 5 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
the property and there is an existing subdivision similar to the north. Mr. Niederauer said the
proposal layout will meet the R20 zoning requirements. He said that the drawing does show the
cul-de-sac to be 50' and it meets the proposed requirements because of the length of the street
if the amendments of the Land Development Code are adopted.
Commissioner Edwards said that there were funky water lines in the area but she thinks they got
replaced a few years ago at the time they built the water tower. Staff said that engineering has
not commented on it.
Chairman Hart opened the Public Hearing.
Bailey Draper, applicant, said he grew up in the area and his dad was a pastor in Euless for many
years prior to moving to Tennessee and fle his father owns the property with his brother. He said
that they plan on all living on the same street and the desire is to live in the same area together.
Mr. Draper said that the development does seem to be the standard in the area. He said he is
a builder in Colleyville who builds higher upper end houses and the houses in the proposed
subdivision will be % to 1 million dollar homes.
Tina Coleman, 7204 John McCain. She said they've lived here for 12 years and most people
have two acres of more. She said that it is disappointing that an R20 will be allowed in the area
and the other R20 is a part of Monticello. She stated concerns for drainage because the property
slopes down to her property and there is a creek that divides her property from the proposed
subdivision. She said she is concerned about sewer.
Denny Newgren, 200 John McCain. He said they have 4 acres and have horses. He stated
concerns about density and traffic because the road narrows down to almost a single lane. Mr.
Newgren said his property is close to where 2 creeks connect and additional runoff could be bad
for drainage. He said there is a sewer line in the area.
Beth Battles, 101 John McCain. She expressed concerns about the density issue with 8 homes
in a cul-de-sac and the other R20 clearly moves into Monticello. She said putting an R20 amongst
the already existing lots would be a mistake.
Grady Walker, 7301 John McCain and 7309 John McCain. He distributed pictures of the area to
explain the general feel of the area. He said that he is concerned about blind spots on the
roadway, and the drainage. He said that he is opposed to the development because of the effects
of the development will have on all of the neighbors. He said that the P&Z Commission and
Council need to define the vision of where they want to take the City. He said that he moved here
because of the open areas and most homes were zoned R40 or AG. He said Colleyville is close
to the Metroplex but able to keep their rural identity. Mr. Walker said the boom has caught the
attention of the developers and any tine that anyone can secure any land, they seize the
opportunity. He said that the City only has so much land and this will set the final footprint of how
the City will be remembered. He said they are losing the charm of the location with all of the new
subdivisions and the impact the number of homes have on the area. He said that people cannot
get out on John McCain Road and all along John McCain are 2 acre to 4 acre lots that give a
sense of neighborhoods. He said that technically R40 lots can be built on the property. He asked
if they were looking at City requirements and said the P & Z is empowered with the right of refusal.
He asked if they want to be remembered as a cul-de-sac community.
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Minutes - November 27,2000
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Ann Epperson, 7308 John McCain Road. She said that Bailey Draper is building a home for them
and said that he has researched all of the issues for drainage and sewer so that should not be
a problem with his new proposal. She said that the property was completely grown over and when
he cleared the property, everyone is now fighting for it. Ms. Epperson said that one of the
disadvantages of living on a larger track is that it develops less of a sense of neighborhood and
the nicer homes will increase the values of the neighboring properties. She said that eight more
homes won't make much of a difference and even during heavy traffic times it is not very difficult
to pull out onto John McCain and the proposed setbacks will prevent visibility issues.
AI Zim, 7209 John McCain. He has lived there for 6 years and wanted to give the Commission
some history of the area. He said that the east side of the street has a 6 in concrete pipeline. And
within a year of him moving on John McCain the line broke and had to be patched by the City. He
said there is a new line on the west line of the street with 2 fire hydrants on the street. He was
advised that there was not enough water pressure to get water out of the west side line to his
house and the fire department did not want to move his hydrant that he was required to install
from the ease side to the west side of John McCain. He said that there is no taking back any
action that they do now. He wanted to give background into problems. Mr. Zim said that
beginning at Bandit Trail the area becomes Monticello and west of Bandit Trail and south most
houses are on large pieces of property and they moved there because of wanting large property.
He said that the previous owner of the property being proposed for rezoning could not keep up
the property and they need to talk about what needs to be done in the future. He said that they
need to consider R30 or R40. Mr. Zim said the Newgrens have a large drainage problem on their
property and the Commission needs to control what goes on in the neighborhood and
environment by having large lots and good drainage. He said that the subdivision should be made
to develop as something that is already existing in the neighborhood.
Bryan Klein, The Hoover/Klein Group, Inc., 1361 W. Euless Blvd, Euless, TX, the applicant's
consulting engineers, said that it seems that there are 3 kinds of comments and some are out of
sequence. He said that the thoroughfare plan is a consideration and eight homes are not a large
development and it is consistent with the current thoroughfare master plan. He said the future
land use plan calls for single family homes but does not delineate what that is and there are
several other zoning categories. He said the predominate use in the area is for single family
residential. Mr. Klein said the drainage plans come in the future with the engineering plans when
the plat is being considered. He said that there are only two things to consider tonight and those
are the compatibility with the area and is this in compliance with the plans the city has on file. Mr.
Klein said the answer to both is "yes". He asked that they recommend the zoning change to the
City Council.
There being no one else present wishing to speak, the public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Hill mentioned R20 across the street.
Commissioner Hollis said that the area is a beautiful part of town and a section with predominately
large homes. He said that if this property goes R20, he is concerned that other properties will look
to the market. He said that residents have demanded the road to stay 2 lane, and he personally
would hate to see it go R20.
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Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 7 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
Commissioner Gasper asked which parcels have dwellings on them. Staff pointed out on the
location map. She said that it sounds to her that most of the property that surrounds the proposed
rezoning is occupied and is developed. She asked what is the notion that in the future they will
get more R20. Staff said that it would be difficult to do since most land is spoken for and it would
require amassing land, and most lots would require a roadway. Commissioner Gasper asked
what the existing values of the properties are in the area.
Commissioner Edwards said that she sees that there are already four tracts of land on the
property. Staff said that there are three lots. It was decided that there is a shared driveway.
Commissioner Gasper said that by adding four million dollars of value it would add value to the
surrounding properties. Commissioner Edwards said that this is a redevelopment process in the
town and this is not the same place it was 10 years ago nor will it remain the same for the next
ten years.
Commissioner Gasper said we have a person who owns a piece of property and wants to build
his own home on the property and is entitled to develop the other land and she is more
sympathetic to land owners rather than developers. She said she is not hearing anything that any
of the issues the neighbors have raised that will negatively impact their properties other than
maybe they will lose the view.
Commissioner Edwards asked Mr. Draper what kind of requirements will he have for the backs
of the property. He responded that he will build all of the houses and will build an adequate fence.
Commissioner Hocutt brought up types of fences and the Commissioners told him that R20
establishes rights to build to property and fencing is not a consideration.
Chairman Hart asked about R30 zoning and Bailey Draper said that one of the lots may need to
be sacrificed for drainage issues and it comes down to an economic issue. He said he is as
concerned about drainage as the neighbors because one of the lots will be his.
Commissioner Gasper said that drainage issues will be considered at time of platting.
Commissioner Gasper moved to recommend the rezoning change from AG to R20.
Commissioner Hill seconded the motion.
Commissioner Edwards asked staff about looking at the smaller pieces of the design for the
property by looking at sewer, drainage and water. She commented that maybe they should they
stop and ask staff to evaluate if the infrastructures are adequate.
Barry LeBaron responded that staff will address engineering at platting and if they have to go off
site Mr. Draper will have to pay for offsite improvements.
Commissioner Wall commented that if anyone has driven that portion of the road a two lane road
is really not what it is. He said that hates to see R20 and yet sees their right to build and if it is
quality, then he is compromised. Either R30 or allow R20 with quality, and R20 gives them a right
to build.
Chairman Hart said that R30 would be a transitional zoning category in the area.
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Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 8 of 16. Approved on 12/11/00
Chairman Hart called for the vote. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Hocutt, Wall, Hill
Noes: Edwards, Hollis, Hart
6. TABLED ITEM - Discussion and consideration of amending the Master Thoroughfare Plan
by closing Wyatt Drive. Case G-00-016
Commissioner Gasper moved to remove the case from the table. Commissioner Wall
seconded the motion. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
Tom Niederauer went over the official staff briefing for the Commission. He reviewed the three
general areas that were raised at the last public hearing. He said that staff met with the police
department, fire department, and public works. He said that Police and Fire felt strongly that they
need to keep the street on the master plan. He said that staff wanted to present additional
information that they did not have at the last hearing. He displayed an exhibit of actual rights of
way in the area. He said that the thoroughfare plan calls for a 70' road and displayed an exhibit
at what that would look like. He said that before Sanders would be built they would have to be
entertaining plans for commercial development. He also said that there is no possibility for a mid-
block connection unless it went through the back of Mr. Loftin's lot and also preempt the
development of a building that they already have a site plan submitted for on Industrial Blvd.
Chairman Hart asked about the future development of Sanders Road. Staff said there is currently
no right of way on Sanders, but Fair Havens Estates dedicated right of way to the standard
required at the time of platting. Discussion by the Commission ensued about current rights of way
and current development on lots in the area.
Commissioner Gasper said that when they last talked about this there was discussion about
restricting traffic by using barricades. She said that for safety reasons that issue needs to be
discussed very carefully.
Commissioner Wall asked how does eliminating Wyatt Dr. improve safety conditions in the area,
and how does keeping Wyatt Drive open improve coverage for any of the buildings. Chief
Johnston said that they can access any building on Industrial Blvd. by Wyatt Drive through
Reynolds Drive in case there was an emergency on the west end of Industrial Blvd.
Chairman Hart asked the Chief as far as a barricade that would be feasible for them to get
through as they would like to stop the problem back in the Reynolds Drive neighborhood and not
stop service on Wyatt Drive could he recommend anything. Chief Johnston said that one of the
problems with gating it off would be that public works will not service Wyatt Drive any longer.
Commissioner Wall asked what is the reason for the grading Wyatt Drive. Chief said that the dirt
roadway washes when it rains and they get calls from people who want to use the roadway. He
said that while he was at Wyatt Drive for 15 minutes, there were 3 vehicles. He said that they
have used the road for emergency response even when it rains. Chief Johnston said that he is
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against barriers because it slows the fire department down, but if they were installed he would
want them removed when Sanders Road developments.
Commissioner Edwards said what about using asphalt on the road. Commissioner Gasper said
that streets are made for cars and not for kids. Commissioner Hill said that he would hate to go
against the police, fire and staff. Commissioner Hollis said that the subdivision by Colleyville
Elementary School has just barricaded their road. Commissioner Gasper said that streets are for
cars and not kids.
Chief Johnston said that Industrial Boulevard area is for commercial businesses and not
residential uses and the potential use for hazards are much greater.
Commissioner Gasper said that she was leaning toward a barrier but because of the report that
the road is getting used she would be opposed to a barricade going up.
Commissioner Wall said that the majority of the people who live in the area want it closed.
Commissioner Gasper said that it is a public street and the people should be able to use it.
Commissioner Edwards said that she is looking toward the future and Sanders will develop
someday and something will develop on the cemetery and it will serve that area well. She said
she realizes that the people on Reynolds don't want to see that, but they are only a small amount
of people being served in the city.
Commissioner Hollis said he does not want to see it blocked forever, but would like to see
barricades until the area streets are paved. Commissioner Edwards said if they put up gates, they
will never see them come down. She told the Commission about other areas of the city that have
developed with dead end streets to be cut through to a future phase of development later and
then the people would object to future development and the streets were never connected.
Commissioner Gasper moved to deny the change to the Master Thoroughfare Plan.
Commissioner Hill asked to amend the motion and add that staff will look into the possibility of
using light permanent asphalt on Wyatt. Chairman Hart said that the two need to be combined.
Commissioner Gasper moved to amend her motion for denial and to instruct staff to
consider the repaving of Wyatt Drive with asphalt. Commissioner Hill removed his
amendment and Seconded the amended motion.
Commissioner Hart asked if staff knew if Wyatt Drive is public for the entire portion. Discussion
ensued about statute and even without a dedicated right of way, a roadway could become public
because of its use. Commissioner Hill said that if a significant time passes there could be
consideration of the roadway as public property.
Commissioner Hill asked staff what would happen if they deny the abandonment tonight. Staff
said that they had planned on taking the item to the Council on December 5th.
Chairman Hart called for the vote. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Wall, Hill, Hart
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Noes: Hollis
Abstained: Hocutt
Commissioner Hocutt explained that his abstention was because he was hoping to come to some
compromise resolution of the situation.
Commissioner Edwards wanted requested that the discussion of barricading Reynolds Drive be
forward to Council and also improving Wyatt Drive.
7. TABLED ITEM - An amendment to the Colleyville Land Development Code regarding the
following items: cul-de-sac streets, roadway impact fee schedule, right-of-way widths for
collector and arterial streets, lot grading and drainage standards, city developer agreements,
dust control, COG and TXDOT specifications, procedures for abandonment of public
easements and rights-of-way, location of loading spaces, fire hydrant spacing, single entry
subdivisions, emergency access and entrance gate specifications, review requirements for
plats, preliminary drainage analysis guidelines, and non-conforming lots. Case Z-00-075
Commissioner Gasper said that she thought they had a motion to have a work session to try to
work through some of the comments. Chairman Hart said they did but he noticed in the staff
briefing that it was unnecessary to have an additional work shop since staff attended a work shop
meeting several weeks ago and additional developers' concerns are addressed in the agenda
briefing under Attachment #5. Commissioner Gasper said that she doesn't see where the
Commissioners' issues are addressed.
Barry LeBaron explained why a work shop has not yet been held. He said that because of the
Thanksgiving holiday and trying to get the agenda item out, he felt like there would not be enough
time to get a work shop together before tonight's meeting. He said that he tried to address most
of the issues and discuss them with the Commission to see if they are resolved. He said that if
they still wanted to have a work shop, they should identify which items to discuss and he would
schedule it.
Commissioner Edwards moved to remove the item from the table. Commissioner Hill
seconded the motion. The vote being:
Ayes: Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: Gasper
Barry LeBaron presented the case to the Commission. He gave them a brief background of the
case. He went through the amendments one by one and briefed the Commission on the status
of each item. He said that the full packet that the Commissioners received a couple of weeks ago
included comments received by the developers who do a large amount of development in
Colleyville. He said the regulations were sent to their engineers and also to engineers who do
work for the city on capital improvement projects and they had 10 or 12 firms who were sent the
information and asked for their comments. Mr. LeBaron told the Commission that when the
comments were received a meeting was held to go over the proposed regulations. He said that
staff felt that they had everyone pretty much in agreement until the last letter that the
Commissioners got two weeks ago came as a surprise.
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Commissioner Gasper said that she feels that staff pretty much has the items covered and the
last letter they received did not overly impress her by the arguments which were made by the
author. She said she thinks staff has done an excellent job in developing the proposed
regulations and she didn't see where staff would need to address the issues that were raised in
that letter. Mr. LeBaron said that he is not opposed to having another work shop. Commissioner
Gasper said that the only reason for the work shop is that there are some issues that some of the
Commissioners have raised and she thought it would be an easy way to get to resolution of those.
She said that the issues raised have ranged from grammatical corrections to policy issues and
she asked how do they come to closure. She said that most of the Commissioners are in
agreement of what has been done here and the only issue that she is aware of where there may
be some disagreement is the dust control.
Chairman Hart said that what they need to realize about the whole project is that it is a work in
progress forever. He said that they are analyzing 19 changes now and will look at 16 items in the
Spring. He said that what they approve for Dust Control now may be suggested for change in the
Spring. Commissioner Gasper said that the easy thing to do is to go through and address the
issues that have been raised by the different Commissioners and discuss them.
Barry LeBaron said that on city/developer agreements there was no language at all about dust
control. He said that a city/developer agreement should come very close to the time a final plat
goes to City Council. He said that if they have identified if there is any city participation in a
project those two ought to go as a package. Mr. LeBaron said that sometimes that can't happen
because of working on some other types of issues, but you would still want to get the agreement
pretty close to the time the plat is going forward. He said that the problem staff has had is they
didn't have any kind of language like that in the Land Development Code and consequently had
no standardization on the language and guidance was needed for a shell city/developer
agreement, and language for the intent to get it as close to the same time the plat goes forward
and not wait until they are ready to start the project. He said that at that point question arise as
to who is paying for what.
Barry LeBaron said that he agreed with Commissioner Gasper on Dust Control. He said that he
was not crazy about the language that was there, but was unsure how you write the language that
says if the City gets a nuisance complaint they need to do something and it needs to be the
developers responsibility. He said that without the language the developer would say that the city
is on their neck all the time. He said that the language for Dust Control seems awfully open
ended and he agreed with them and asked them for better language. Mr. LeBaron said that if she
is uncomfortable with that one, they are getting into the Winter and staff will have time if they don't
have a drought situation, to take that item off and look at it later on he '.vould agree with her.
Commissioner Gasper said that there is an adage that hard cases make bad law and they have
had an unusual period of time. Mr. LeBaron said that one developer when asked to take care of
the blowing dust problems said there was nothing in the regulations that require him to take care
of that and he was told that there would be soon. He said that is how the item became number
nineteen and they are open to the language for Dust Control to help the neighbors out who are
getting the blowing dust.
Tom Hart asked if staff had looked at other cities' regulations. Barry LeBaron said that lots of
them don't even have what they have proposed but rely on it as a nuisance.
Planning & Zoning Commission
Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 12 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
Commissioner Edwards asked if there is any connection between the fact that the developers can
move earth around before they really get any approvals. She said that she has seen several
places where lots have been scraped off and then the project didn't develop. She said that at that
point it is too late to do anything about it. She asked if is any way to require if someone scrapes
off a lot and then doesn't develop it they would be required to put something out there. Barry
LeBaron said they are required to get an erosion control plan before they start their work and for
the past year they have been doing that. He said that what they needed and didn't have was
something to back them up when they started having high winds and dry soil conditions.
Commissioner Gasper said that is erosion to her because what they have is erosion in the air.
She asked why it couldn't be covered in whatever erosion language the city has. Barry LeBaron
said that it just didn't address blowing dust. She asked what the current language on erosion
control is. Mr. LeBaron said that it is primarily designed for silt control so that when it runs, dirt
doesn't run down and fill storm drains and runs across and out into the streets.
Commissioner Edwards said she could hear the developers saying that once it is up in the air it
doesn't belong to them anymore. She said that as far as she is concerned, this is a good place
to start. Barry LeBaron said that he will put a question mark by that item and when they get to the
end the Commission needs to tell him how they feel about all of the items. He said that the ones
he has checked they are in a position that they may be able to move forward on them.
Commissioner Edwards said that she did not need an explanation on all of the items.
Commissioner Gasper said that is why she wanted to go onto the comments made by the
Commissioners because they could move on fairly quickly. She said that some of them were just
editorial. Commissioner Hill said that he missed the meeting before last when the discussion first
came up about the amendments to the Land Development Code. He said that he only has a
couple things that he would like to ask the Commissioner what their thoughts are as they quickly
go over a couple of them. Commissioner Edwards and Commissioner Gasper said that they
should quickly go down the list of the comments that have been raised.
Chairman Hart said that the first one is Attachment #1 from Mark Hollis. Commissioner Hollis said
that is actually a response to Attachment #3 and he didn't think that they need to discuss it as he
is happy with it. Commissioner Edwards said to ask Commissioner Gasper what her comments
are. Chairman Hart said that it was all up to Commissioner Gasper.
Commissioner Gasper said that there were several things that were editorial. Barry LeBaron said
that he added them to the regulations. He said that one of the things she submitted was
incomplete submittals of plats. He said that he did not use all of that language because the City
Attorney was concerned about the way the original regulation was worded. He said that staff
essentially said that staff would look through a subdivision submittal and will return it to the
applicant in 10 days if it is not complete. He said that is not what staff is doing because they are
not sending it back, but sending a list telling them what they were deficient off. He said the City
Attorney said staff was tying themselves down when they put the number of days in there. Mr.
LeBaron said that he recommended changing the language to say that on a subdivision plat that
is submitted will be reviewed and the applicant will be told what is deficient and don't put in any
dates. He said that the first time a plat ends up in court they will start checking the calendars and
say that the applicant did not get a response back in a proper number of days and that's where
they will start nailing it.
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Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 13 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
Commissioner Gasper said that the other thing is on the review process by the DRC, she is not
clear on the recommendations she had made, which ones were accepted. She said that she
basically tried to take some of the pressure off the staff by not allowing anything to come to the
Commission until staff had everything they needed. Barry LeBaron suggested that she look at
the language on page #28 she will see that all of her comments were used in the second part of
DRC review.
Commissioner Gasper said that as far as she is concerned, the only question is Dust Control.
Commissioner Edwards asked if they could pull that item out and vote on everything else.
Commissioner Hill asked the Commissioners if they were comfortable with the cul-de-sac issue
being 600'. He said that he wanted to bring up the idea that if twelve lots spread over a longer
cul-de-sac that will be the same number of automobiles driving the cul-de-sac. He asked if it
made any sense to add an either/or in that section. Mr. LeBaron responded that the thing of
extended it according to the zoning is he wants to make the 600' longer because of the larger lots,
he would have to keep in mind the hose lay issues that the fire department has to contend with.
He said that even if they went to an R40 with large lots or an R20 with 12 lots, he would advise
staying with 600' standards. Commissioner Hill said that is not a strong area to contend and he
would not want to make an impact if everyone is happy with it.
Commissioner Hill asked about the drainage where it relates to 0.5 to 0.6 on the drainage
provision, he would like to offer a general comment. He said that he is involved some with people
who are developing around Northeast Tarrant County and there is honestly a clear perception that
he gets that it is difficult to work in Colleyville and there are things to impede developers' progress.
He said that he wanted to make sure that they are not just adding a layer of bureaucracy or
unnecessary things for developers. He said that he didn't know if David Bagwell is right or wrong
in adding $100,000 to his subdivision, but to the extent that is happening, he wanted to be careful
about that.
Commissioner Gasper said that she would say that because drainage is such a problem in
Colleyville, it behooves them to have the capacity to take the water that is running off. She said
that there are too many subdivisions that are having drainage problems and they need to raise
the coefficient because it seems in line with what other jurisdictions are doing. She said that is
an area that if it costs the developer more, they have a right to protect the homeowners from
being flooded out. Commissioner Hill said that he does not disagree, but he is not competent to
know if that is a good number or not.
Commissioner Hollis said that the city did hire a reputable engineering firm to come up with that
number. He pointed out that it is much easier to grant a variance where proof is presented and
the situation is warranted than it is to put yourself into a strict technical compliance corner that you
can't get out of.
Barry LeBaron said that he had some concerns about it when the firm wanted to raise it from 0.5
to 0.6, but when he gave it some thought and realized that in Colleyville when you drive around
you don't see that the city's concrete lined channels. He said that in the towns that have a lower
coefficient that can handle greater runoffs have concrete lined channels. He said that it is
incumbent upon them to be able to design into the non-concrete lined facilities a little greater
capability.
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Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 14 of 16 - Approved on 12111100
Commissioner Edwards said that the city is still suffering from the perception of less than five
years ago. She said Bob Stripling had a list that he carried around with him with 134 drainage
problems and they were all individuals or neighborhoods and major funds have been used over
the last years to correct them. She said that she used to be very' concerned about drainage but
because the engineering department has changed so significantly and they have more staff than
they did, it is not a worry anymore. She said that it will not harm them to be conservative about
it because staff will help the citizens learn that the city is not creating any more problems to add
to the list.
Commissioner Gasper said that the fact they have it written down and codified and clear for
developers to understand they will know what the rules are. She said if a developer knows what
the rules are that helps development.
Commissioner Hill asked about the 30% cap on the city/developer agreements. He said that
those are going to be unique agreements from subdivisions to subdivisions and he didn't see the
benefit to adding that in when it was already going to be a negotiated range anyway. Barry
LeBaron said that those are statutory numbers. He said that he felt it might be good to put them
there is not everybody has a copy of the statute and it would be good if the inspectors have it.
Commissioner Edwards asked if there was any part of the city/developer agreement that
addresses when the HOA is turned over to the subdivision. She said that there are some
developers who have found ways to keep control over the HOA basically until they have every
single house built and that isn't right. Barry LeBaron responded that is a civil issue.
Commissioner Hill said that is a civil issue in the deed restrictions.
Commissioner Hill said that he has edited the Dust Control portion and he would be happy to
email everybody over the next week. He asked about the COG standards and asked how they
layover Colleyville's ordinances. He asked if they were more restrictive at times or less restrictive.
Barry LeBaron showed them a copy of the COG standards that were started in the late 70's. He
proceeded to explain the standards.
Commissioner Hill asked about divided entryways and asked if they are only for single entry
subdivisions. Barry LeBaron said that the wording was a little confusing and it is not really single
entry subdivisions. He said what it is really talking about is if you have 12 lots in a subdivision you
can have one entrance, but if you go to 13 you need to have that emergency access or provide
another way to get into it. He said that they've had situations where people have provided a
divided entryway and have 25 or 30 lots and ask if the divided entryway count as both the ingress
and the emergency access. He said that if they are separated far enough so that a semi that is
moving somebody in doesn't have a wreck and block both of them, then that is what is generally
called the "Jim Foster" rule. Somebody asked how did staff come up with the 100' separation
between two entryways in a subdivision as being an adequate distance. He said that Jim said if
you get the longest semi and it has an accident with an automobile, it might block one entrance
at the 100' but wouldn't block the second one. Mr. LeBaron said that if you have that, you don't
have to provide the emergency access someplace else in the subdivision. He said that the Chief
and he worked together to come up with different options and there are other options working
there. He said that you can also have two driving lanes that are 36' or a single entrance with two
41' so you're not just tied to separating 2 entrances by just 100' because you may not have that
kind of width at the front of the subdivision.
Planning & Zoning Commission
Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 15 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
Commissioner Hill said that his final comment is about the preliminary drainage analysis and it is
the same type of comment as before as it is an extra cost at the early point of the game and
requires engineers. He said that he wants to get the City the protection it needs there, but have
a reasonably cost effective way for the developer, it would facilitate good development. He said
that he didn't believe they should do away with it as long as engineers are involved in that process
and can make it as painless as possible for the applicant.
Mr. LeBaron responded that the extra clause was added to say here is way we mean and here
is what we want is because it is like going into a tire store and ask them to rotate the tires and he
only does three of them, when everybody understands you should rotate all four. He said that
they had a developer that says, "Where does it say that you have to provide the calculations?" Mr.
LeBaron said what is the purpose of doing a drainage analysis if you don't at least determine
about how much water is coming down the channel to determine whether there is a need for
improvements. He said that they felt like they needed to add that statement so that it will be very
clear that they need to provide the calculations for the drainage analysis. He said that is where
that came from.
Mr. LeBaron said that somebody raised a question about turnarounds and maybe providing a
detour as an option. He said that he thought he explained it in his response that what you provide
on a turnaround is if you have a subdivision that has a dead end street and it looks into a ten acre
track that will be developed. He said you don't want the dead end street to be a problem for the
garbage trucks and everybody else you could provide a temporary asphalt turnaround or it may
be a hammerhead so that you can pull up and turn around. He said it may be there for 4 or 5
years, but it would be cheaper than putting curb and gutter and building a full fledged turnaround.
He said that he felt they needed some kind of language to provide some type of turnaround so
that the developer can't leave the street as a dead end.
Mr. LeBaron said that Commissioner Gasper raised some very observant and interesting points
on the #17, Nonconforming Lots and he appreciated that. He said that staff just put a band aid
on that. He said that the whole nonconforming section will be a part of the 60 items that will be
coming before them next. He said that the whole section needs an overhaul. He said that if he
took Ms. Gasper's concerns now he could spend a lot of time on that section. Barry said that they
just had an issue at the ZBA and the Mayor and the Council asked if they would at least take the
paragraph out that provides the contradictory language and that is all that they did. He said that
the whole 5 or 6 pages on nonconformity needs some real serious work because people have
different opinions about what is nonconforming and then what does staff do about it. He said will
be addressed in the future and Clayton is working on that section.
Commissioner Hocutt moved to recommend approval of Case # Z-OO-075 with amendments
from staff.
Commissioner Edwards asked to make a friendly amendment that they remove the Dust Control
proposal for further consideration.
Commissioner Hocutt moved to recommend approval of Case # Z-OO-075 except for #6 the
Dust Control issue. Commissioner Gasper seconded the motion. The vote being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Planning & Zoning Commission
Minutes - November 27,2000
Page 16 of 16 - Approved on 12/11/00
Noes: None
Commissioner Gasper asked Barry LeBaron about her recommendation regarding timing as far
as days and she had said 10 business days and he converted to 14 days and had not used the
term business. She said that the concern she has if you are counting 14 days and run into times
like Christmas or Thanksgiving where there may be holidays back-to-back. She asked him if the
current wording gives staff sufficient time. Barry LeBaron responded that they have not had any
problem, but 10 business days would work as well. Ms. Gasper said there is a difference and 10
business days may give staff more time than 14 days and which ever one used is fine with her,
but her only concern was that staff has adequate time.
Commissioner Hollis offered a friendly amendment to change the language of that
sentence to 10 business days. Commissioner Gasper seconded the amendment. The vote
being:
Ayes: Gasper, Edwards, Hocutt, Hollis, Wall, Hill, Hart
Noes: None
8. Citizens' comments regarding items not on the agenda: There were none.
9. Staff comments, reports and discussion items: Tom Niederauer distributed colored zoning map
atlases.
10. Commissioners' comments and reports: Chairman Hart advised that the Commission will only
hold one meeting in the month of December because the second meeting of the month would
have fallen on Christmas day.
ADJOURNMENT:
Commissioner Hocutt moved to adjourn the meeting at 10:15 p.m. The motion was
seconded and passed by acclamation.
Respectfully Submitted,
Approved on: December 11,2000 as corrected.
NOTE: As a matter of public record, an audio recording of the above Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting is available upon request.